The Legacy of White Supremacy for Christians in America with Robert P. Jones
"White supremacy is the idea that God intended people who thought of themselves as white to be superior."
At 11 o’clock, the local NPR station plays Fresh Air. I was driving somewhere on July 30th somewhere between 11:15 and 11:30 and was absolutely captivated by Terry Gross’ guest. He was talking about the systemic racism of white evangelicals, among other things, but I didn’t catch who it was. I remember sitting in the parking lot of a store until I finally heard Terry Gross say, “I’m speaking with Robert P. Jones, the author of the new book White Too Long.” I immediately bought the book, devoured it, and KNEW that I needed to have him as a source for my thesis podcast.
This book and this conversation were so instrumental in helping me articulate the points I was trying to make, and I was so grateful we could find some time to chat.
At 1:46, Jones mentions Public Religion Research Institute, which is his day job.
At 4:30, I talk about the difference between Mainline and Evangelical Christians. From a denominational standpoint, Mainline Christians tend to be Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians… basically anything that’s not Baptist or non-denominational churches.
At 13:47, Jones mentions Manifest Destiny, which is a haunting rabbit hole to go down if you haven’t heard that phrase since social studies in middle school.
At 15:06, I mention Ann Swindler and the cultural toolkit. I talk about this some in the podcast, but she’s done a TON of research on this idea and it’s really worth looking into.
At 15:35, I mention Michael Emerson and Christian Smith. Their book Divided by Faith is one that Jones cites and was a really useful resource for me, too.
At 22:18, he quotes MLK’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. I wanted to transcribe part of it here cause it’s so good. “I felt that the white ministers, priests and rabbis of the South would be among our strongest allies. Instead, some have been outright opponents, refusing to understand the freedom movement and misrepresenting its leaders; all too many others have been more cautious than courageous and have remained silent behind the anesthetizing security of stained glass windows.”
At 23:50, I bring up Bloody Sunday. This was, of course, the march from Selma to Montgomery in 1965.
At 30:45, I bring up the Racism Index. Here’s an NBC News op/ed Jones wrote that describes it in part.
At 40:23, Jones describes White Evangelicals move from being “values voters” to “nostalgia voters,” which ties quite nicely into Phil Gorski’s commentary.
Jones is extremely active not just on Twitter, but with his own substack as well.
Next week I talk with Angie Maxwell, the author of The Long Southern Strategy and a professor at the University of Arkansas.